Higher Education?
This semester, the prestigious Dordt College added a new item to their extensive list of high-tech electronic options for students. Cleverly dubbed "DordtTalk," this message board/forum was created to give students a chance to constructively discuss current issues related to the campus, the church, society, and politics. Curiosity got the best of me, and I decided to take a peak at what my peers were talking about.
The first and most popular thread in the forum was the infamous "Women in Office." I was curious as to what the general opinion is on campus about the issue, so I clicked on it. Long story short, I probably shouldn't have done it.
After the third comment, I didn't care what position people took. I think there are some pretty good arguments on both sides, but I didn't see them there. I even had to re-read a few them to figure out if I missed some sarcasm somewhere in the paragraph. What I found was a disturbingly entertaining chat session, in which people offered their "two cents." Two cents is an overstatement.
Because you need a username and password to see the discussion in its entirety, most of you are unable to access it. But I'll go ahead and paste a few excerpts here, displaying the wealth of knowledge, intellect, and insight that is now know as "DordtTalk."
Here they are, with no bias towards a particular position:
"As a general rule, I'm for women in office. Someone pointed out the other day that women can serve with a point of view that men don't have. In addition, I think that there are some women who are much more qualified to serve in office than some men. That's my personal opinion. I haven't analayzed what scripture says, but the impression I get is that you can read what scripture says both ways, depending on what scripture you choose and what you leave out."
"I do not, nor have I ever had the desire to be a pastor or any "official" role in ministry... but what if I did? What if ANY woman did? Great Bible quotes and all, but I think we're just as able to lead and should be allowed to as well. Honestly, I prefer male preachers/elders. Seems more authoritative that way. (Sorry ladies if I just lowered the glass ceiling) But why should you guys get to say "no" if one of us wants to lead a congregation or something? I think the person that it appears will most "pastor" the congregation should get the job, and if that person is a woman more qualified than a man so be it. I'm made in Christ's image too. And I'm aware that everyone has a different function in the body but egads...you can't say that it would be contradicting His word for a woman to be called to a position... unless you have a perfect understanding of His word (if you do please fill me in, I have a couple questions). "
"I'm actually not in favor of women in office. It's not that I don't think there are not any women who are capable of filling such a position, I just honestly don't think that it's their role in life. Interestingly enough, my dad (he's a Christian High School teacher) has noticed that once girls start to fill the leadership positions, guys begin to lose interest in taking on leadership roles. If anyone has any opinions on why exactly that is...they would be interesting to hear...anyways, I'm simply more inclined to think that male leadership in all kinds of things is just the natural way things should go."
"The whole idea that we must look to scripture for our stance on this issue is a good idea. Unfortunately we must first acknowledge that no where does the Bible state anything about church office in general."
"Why I think that women should be in office if they are qualified for the position and if the congregation is ready: God has given exceptional leadership abilities to some women: Hillary Clinton, Condi Rice, my youth group leaders, etc.. I dont see why God would give such abilities to women in the church and then wish for them to stagnate out of ill use. The church has a goldmine of opportunity just waiting to be used. Yet, we shun women to the outskirts of church leadership just becuase they have an extra X chromosome. That doesnt make sense to me. God has given the church some "talents" (think "the parable of the talents"). I think that we are burying some of our talents in the ground. Times have changed. The church should do so as well."
My personal favorite:
"Women in office is not related to salvation. The Bible does not say that "He who places a woman in church office shall not go to heaven." In the big scheme of things, it is not worth fighting over. That is what makes me so mad at the URC. They split over this non-salvation issue."
(A defensive URC member gives a lengthy response, explaining that this was only a small reason for the split. The same person answers back.)
"I really dont care about what the URC says was the reason for the split. Everyone knows that the reason was that they were more conservative and that they thought that the CRC was too liberal. They can list whatever they want about their "reasons for leaving", but I confess that I am rather fed up. I take church splits personally."
Hey Eric, I'll trade you two Defenders for three Trolls.
The first and most popular thread in the forum was the infamous "Women in Office." I was curious as to what the general opinion is on campus about the issue, so I clicked on it. Long story short, I probably shouldn't have done it.
After the third comment, I didn't care what position people took. I think there are some pretty good arguments on both sides, but I didn't see them there. I even had to re-read a few them to figure out if I missed some sarcasm somewhere in the paragraph. What I found was a disturbingly entertaining chat session, in which people offered their "two cents." Two cents is an overstatement.
Because you need a username and password to see the discussion in its entirety, most of you are unable to access it. But I'll go ahead and paste a few excerpts here, displaying the wealth of knowledge, intellect, and insight that is now know as "DordtTalk."
Here they are, with no bias towards a particular position:
"As a general rule, I'm for women in office. Someone pointed out the other day that women can serve with a point of view that men don't have. In addition, I think that there are some women who are much more qualified to serve in office than some men. That's my personal opinion. I haven't analayzed what scripture says, but the impression I get is that you can read what scripture says both ways, depending on what scripture you choose and what you leave out."
"I do not, nor have I ever had the desire to be a pastor or any "official" role in ministry... but what if I did? What if ANY woman did? Great Bible quotes and all, but I think we're just as able to lead and should be allowed to as well. Honestly, I prefer male preachers/elders. Seems more authoritative that way. (Sorry ladies if I just lowered the glass ceiling) But why should you guys get to say "no" if one of us wants to lead a congregation or something? I think the person that it appears will most "pastor" the congregation should get the job, and if that person is a woman more qualified than a man so be it. I'm made in Christ's image too. And I'm aware that everyone has a different function in the body but egads...you can't say that it would be contradicting His word for a woman to be called to a position... unless you have a perfect understanding of His word (if you do please fill me in, I have a couple questions). "
"I'm actually not in favor of women in office. It's not that I don't think there are not any women who are capable of filling such a position, I just honestly don't think that it's their role in life. Interestingly enough, my dad (he's a Christian High School teacher) has noticed that once girls start to fill the leadership positions, guys begin to lose interest in taking on leadership roles. If anyone has any opinions on why exactly that is...they would be interesting to hear...anyways, I'm simply more inclined to think that male leadership in all kinds of things is just the natural way things should go."
"The whole idea that we must look to scripture for our stance on this issue is a good idea. Unfortunately we must first acknowledge that no where does the Bible state anything about church office in general."
"Why I think that women should be in office if they are qualified for the position and if the congregation is ready: God has given exceptional leadership abilities to some women: Hillary Clinton, Condi Rice, my youth group leaders, etc.. I dont see why God would give such abilities to women in the church and then wish for them to stagnate out of ill use. The church has a goldmine of opportunity just waiting to be used. Yet, we shun women to the outskirts of church leadership just becuase they have an extra X chromosome. That doesnt make sense to me. God has given the church some "talents" (think "the parable of the talents"). I think that we are burying some of our talents in the ground. Times have changed. The church should do so as well."
My personal favorite:
"Women in office is not related to salvation. The Bible does not say that "He who places a woman in church office shall not go to heaven." In the big scheme of things, it is not worth fighting over. That is what makes me so mad at the URC. They split over this non-salvation issue."
(A defensive URC member gives a lengthy response, explaining that this was only a small reason for the split. The same person answers back.)
"I really dont care about what the URC says was the reason for the split. Everyone knows that the reason was that they were more conservative and that they thought that the CRC was too liberal. They can list whatever they want about their "reasons for leaving", but I confess that I am rather fed up. I take church splits personally."
Hey Eric, I'll trade you two Defenders for three Trolls.
posted by Aaron at 9:11 AM
13 Comments:
Aaron, AHHHHH SHOOT!!! Please give me a password and username to this stuff. I wouldnt mind reeking some havoc on this forum as I did in the Justin Lookadoo chat forum. I really would like something to occupy my time, but whatev. I guess I maybe should have posted a blog about it, but two weeks ago a woman speaker came to our Praise and Worship on Thursday night to talk about a totally original concept "being on fire for Jesus!" wherein if we wanted, we could get anointed with oil. At first I was skeptical but then I saw it was Extra Virgin Olive Oil and I hopped on board. Great Post.
The whole idea that we must look to scripture for our stance on this issue is a good idea. Unfortunately we must first acknowledge that no where does the Bible state anything about church office in general."
That's my personal opinion. I haven't analayzed what scripture says, but the impression I get is that you can read what scripture says both ways, depending on what scripture you choose and what you leave out."
Some of my favs. I wander if it ever occurs to anyone that Christianity and biblical doctrine isnt based on personal opinion. I guess its my personal opinion that all women should be put in prison, what does the Bible say concerning that?
"...we shun women to the outskirts of church leadership just becuase they have an extra X chromosome."
Everyone knows that women are considered women because their lack of a Y chromosome! They don't even use the extra X chromosome!!! I'm pulling my hair out in frustration over here!!!
Amen, Amen, and Amen. And women shouldn't be allowed to have blogs either.
Eric, did you say extra virgin olive oil? You should have asked for a doggy bag, that stuff can get pricy.
Aaron, I realize that the oil was expensive but it was on Trinity so I figure why not. I was reminded of you while it happened though, which is not the effect I think they were looking for...
"It is like precious oil poured on the head, running down on the beard, running down on Aaron's beard, down upon the collar of his robes." Psalm 133.
The question is...since when did you get a beard?
I'm in Europe. I am now sporting a beard, ponytail, and old, tattered clothes. And I have given up showering.
I'm just posting cause I love you and I want to boost your comment total towards 20.
What's this talk about a beard?
I wanted to comment on this post so that you could possibly get 20 comments. And I love you.
PS. You got a beard? Since when? Where's the pic?
Oops... guess I did it too!
OK, so I didn't grow a beard. I lied. But I'm working on one until Cooper comes next week. I did shave my head last week though. First time since junior high.
JL - about the papal shift. It's hard to tell how it differs from Dordt. In a sense, Dordt isn't a good representation of America because it is its own Reformed community that really isn't all that affected by the pope. Likewise, the community I live in probably isn't a good sample of Holland. I live in a Reformed circle here as well, where there aren't a lot of Catholics, so it doesn't make a huge difference. But it is bigger news I would imagine, just because of the proximity. The pope does have quite a bit of indirect political power in Europe, and the entire world for that matter. But the only reaction to the news I heard around here was, "Shit, it's a German."
I heard that Cooper was the new pope, and is going to Italy next week to be inaugurated. He'll be known as
Pope JC II.
I could be wrong, but I think this puts you at the 20 comment mark. I have a feeling were taking advantage of this comment thing. Hey could everyone post comments on my blog, I need a confidence booster cause Im insecure about my blog.
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